Over the past few months, I have spent a lot of time talking to people about the Gilets Jaunes protest movement that exploded across France three years ago last month. Driven initially by anger at soaring fuel prices, it developed into a much broader anti-government and especially anti-Emmanuel Macron phenomenon and led to the biggest and most violent protests seen on French streets since the 1968 Paris spring.
It eventually fizzled out, stifled by a combination of lockdown and a strong-armed police response. For The National (UAE), I talked to protesters, including an elderly woman who was badly hurt in a police charge in Nice, authors, politicians and analysts and lots of ordinary French people. Look up the series of four articles that have now appeared by going to this link
I will post the pieces here. For now, and to honour a pledge to the person concerned, here is the full transcript of my interview with one of those authors, Khider Mesloub (pictured below). It’s a bit rushed but I will properly translate the questions as I have already done with the answers, and do any necessary tidying up, when time allows. i should add that I strongly disagree with much of his analysis, especially those areas where he appears determined to sound a little like Dave Spart …
QUESTIONS FOR KHIDER MESLOUB
SALUT: Plusieurs livres ont été écrits sur les Gilets Jaunes. Quelle a été la motivation pour l'Autopsie du mouvement des gilets jaunes (Questions contemporaines)? Comment avez-vous mené vos recherches?
Khider Mesloub:
To answer your question, it is important to consider that we have published our volume “Autopsy of the Yellow Vests Movement” (Autopsy of the Yellow Vests Movement - Autopsy of yellow vests - les 7 du quebec: https: // les7duquebec .net / archives / 253109) in the second quarter of 2019, after the popular yellow vests movement ran out of steam and weekly protests subsided.
Certainly, you are right, several books have been written on the yellow vests. But a posteriori. And on the basis of documentary research because these books were written by people outside the movement. For Robert and I, as revolutionaries, our book was written in situ, as the yellow vests movement developed. We did not need to start research because we were directly involved in the yellow vests movement, through our many articles in favor of yellow vests, all published in the Webmagazine Les 7 du Québec, https: // les7duquebec.net/ site managed by Monsieur Bibeau. Thus, our material for the drafting of the volume edited by L’Harmattan was drawn directly from the sources provided by the fight of the yellow vests, followed, scrutinized and analyzed with a magnifying glass throughout its development. Even, for my part, through my personal involvement in the demonstrations carried out every Saturday in my city, in Rouen. For motivation, we were driven by this imperative need to establish an Assessment of this popular revolt movement, in particular on the reasons for its weaknesses, not to say its failure, in order to serve as lessons for future fights for the proletariat. And our book is one of the first books published, long before the boom in commercial publications. Robert and I even waived our copyright.
Pouvez-vous repenser à 2018 et vous rappeler comment vous avez découvert le mouvement pour la première fois ? Quelles ont été vos premières impressions ?
There too, as revolutionaries, constantly on the lookout for the slightest spark of social revolt, always in tune with current events, in particular protest, we did not need to discover the spontaneous movement, we did straight away put to cover it, mediatically speaking, by our texts of analysis.
We were the first, unlike all political currents on the left and the right, which, for their part, displayed a contemptuous attitude towards the populist yellow vests, to detect the revolutionary potential carried by this spontaneous protest movement refusing to to be constrained by the old outdated political organizations.
We praised its radicalism and its refusal to be taken over by any political party or union. We knew that behind the fight against the fuel tax, a new form of radical struggle was brewing for the defense of the living and working conditions of the proletarian class. The "green" tax was the last straw that blew up the barrel of popular struggle. This spontaneous populist movement placed French society in a perspective of tilting to the level of the class struggle. We were not dealing with simple motorists revolted against the imposition of the pseudo ecological tax on fuel, but with a fundamental protest movement, doomed to radicalize. Not because of a sudden revolutionary political consciousness, but because of the repressive reaction of the power of the totalitarian state.
It was as if the fundamentally repressive nature of power had contributed more to the radicalization of the movement than the years of rampant activism hounded by leftist organizations. The popular and spontaneous movement of yellow vests immediately placed the French proletariat against the state of globalized big capital.
Cela a semblé commencer comme un mélange d'éléments d'extrême droite et ruraux protestant contre la proposition de taxe écologique sur le carburant, mais a ensuite grandi pour englober l'extrême gauche, des personnes aux opinions politiques moins extrêmes et un large éventail de revendications. Est-ce une description vraie ou fausse ?
This is a true description, but from the point of view of the stipend journalists. The French media were, throughout the protest, complicit in discrediting, denigrating and slandering the yellow vests movement, qualifying it as "right" on the grounds that the movement was spontaneous and refused to be restrained by the old unionist left. , elitist.
For our part, from the proletarian point of view, we had certainly immediately detected the interclassist character of the movement, but within which the proletariat could impose itself as the main component in order to imprint its revolutionary orientations. As for the participation of the far left that you mentioned, in truth it has always castigated and rejected the movement of yellow vests, cataloged as "fascists".
So, the extreme left like the unions never joined the struggle of the yellow vests, except towards the end of the movement, after having been dominated by the petty bourgeoisie carrying defeatist tactics (weekly procession demonstrations in Paris), and demands citizens, in particular the famous RIC (citizens' initiative referendum) and other petty bourgeois societal nonsense.
Pourquoi pensez-vous que M. Macron est une figure si impopulaire parmi ceux qui soutiennent les Gilets Jaunes ? Quel parti ou quels hommes politiques serviraient mieux leurs intérêts ?
It was not Macron's anti-social policies, nor his alleged arrogance that made him so unpopular.
All the previous French presidents had also pursued an anti-social policy, displayed an arrogant attitude. Macron's unpopularity is explained by his fundamentally repressive policies inflicted on protesters, regardless of the object of the claim.
Moreover, under cover of a pandemic, this repressive despotic has spread today against the entire population, subjected to mass surveillance, electronic tracing, prison confinement, restrictions on their freedom. The French bourgeoisie, in decline for several decades, can no longer afford social benefits. On the contrary, it works exclusively for the dismantling of all the pseudo “social gains” which, the proletariat observes, are never “acquired” and must constantly be fiercely defended. Especially since the enthronement of the absolute monarch Macron.
This decadent social class is condemned to rule by terror to face the inevitable social protest movements that are increasingly numerous to manifest themselves due to the worsening of the living conditions of all the proletarians, including the middle and small class. bourgeois. As for the question relating to the party or politicians likely to serve the interests of the yellow vests, the latter have always displayed their rejection of the classic political system, like the French “elites” shouted for their compromise with the powerful. The yellow vests rely only on their strength, on themselves ... This is what the left and the right reproach them.
Les manifestations ont souvent dégénéré en violences graves, ont empêché la liberté de mouvement des gens ordinaires et, pour certains, ont fait perdre leur travail et/ou leurs entreprises, leurs revenus. Malgré cela, les sondages d'opinion suggèrent des niveaux de soutien élevés. Est-ce une exception française ou comment l'expliqueriez-vous ?
There you have it yourself, have you noticed the contrast between the media discourse on the violence attributed to the yellow vests and the great popularity among the ordinary people (those from below whom we claim) from which they benefited throughout the movement of protest.
This media focus on the alleged violence of the yellow vests, summed up in a few broken windows or burnt cars, aimed to obscure the real state violence perpetrated by the thousands of police officers mobilized against the demonstrators (do not forget that the results of the violence police officers is heavy: in less than a year, we deplore 3,100 wounded, of which 24 of these wounded were cut off and five had their hands torn off; there were also 13 killed).
Also, the French population did not fall into the trap of propaganda distilled by the stipendied French media, describing the yellow vests as a horde of thugs. She has always shown her support for the yellow vests. At the peak of the struggle, up to 84% of the French supported the Yellow Vest movement.
Un problème évident était que le mouvement n'avait aucune structure de direction, aucun organe représentatif unique avec lequel le gouvernement pourrait négocier. Pourquoi était-ce le cas ?
The question should be asked differently.
Why has the popular movement spontaneously - instinctively - refused to endow itself with a leadership, as you say, a representative body, as you say, in order to negotiate with the corrupt government. It is because the context of the class struggle in France forced the yellow vests movement to anchor itself from the outset in an anti-system political paradigm, in an anti-government dynamic. It broke with classic institutional political categories. Faced with a government that had adopted a repressive logic, there was nothing to negotiate.
The savage hype of the demonstrators made it obvious. This refusal to structure according to traditional standards, long promoted by the collaborating and reformist political parties, marks the shift into the new era marked by the end of classical bourgeois politics, as I analyze in my latest book "Krach du Politique? », Devoted to the crisis of governance and bourgeois democracy. https://les7duquebec.net/archives/264420
Le mouvement était divisé par ceux qui souhaitaient manifester pacifiquement et ceux qui considéraient la violence comme légitime. Êtes-vous d'accord qu'il est trop simpliste de blâmer les Black Blocs et les extrémistes pour les actes de violence perpétrés au nom des Gilets Jaunes ?
In any radical protest movement, revolutionary and reactionary violence are inevitable. Revolution, as Mao said, is not a gala dinner. Fashion show. I would add that any social revolt, let alone a revolution, carries all the miasmas of society, disgorges all political tendencies, sets up all social layers against the system, each carrying its political mores imprinted with pacifism or radicalism.
Beyond the differences relating to the peaceful or radical nature of the struggle, there was a real divide within the yellow vests movement. A class divide. This class divide within the movement was expressed from the outbreak of the protest, especially between the proletariat and the petty bourgeoisie.
This cleavage between the petty bourgeoisie and the proletariat had manifested itself not only at the level of demands, but also at the level of actions. The petty bourgeoisie favored hard-hitting actions, but without major consequences for the economy and profits, such as parade demonstrations, punctuated by futile urban "heists", useless petitions, ridiculous legal proceedings, derisory appeal to institutions. international, appeals to the mythical "public opinion" and the media they had so much to complain about.
The proletarian yellow vests, for their part, favored the blocking of roundabouts, the closure of ports, the stopping of the transport of goods, oil and employees, the general strike and the paralysis of the economy, as many. actions which directly attacked the surplus value and profits of capitalists, large and small.
En quoi consiste votre propre expérience des manifestations et des barrages routiers ? Quelle a été votre impression sur la façon dont les manifestants se sont comportés ?
Personally, I have participated regularly in the Saturday demonstrations. Each time, as soon as I arrived, I was shocked by the appalling deployment of hundreds of police officers dressed in Robocop, overarmed, equipped with deadly technology, including the infamous LBD (Defense Bullet Launchers), like s' they were at war. Let me be clear: I denounce all the gratuitous violence perpetrated by thugs. They serve the struggle. They only contribute to the strengthening of the security and repressive state policy and, above all, they legitimize, in the eyes of public opinion, the repression of social movements. But we in no way denounce the actions of resistance to reactionary state violence.
As for the roadblocks and famous roundabouts occupied by the yellow vests, these were genuinely revolutionary actions of the movement. For these actions attacked surplus value and profits, the lungs of production.
They paralyzed the capitalist machine by blocking the economy. They hindered the production of surplus value and profits. This is why these occupations were quickly halted, the occupants dislodged. The state preferred to leave the streets to harmless demonstrators, to distract them in the endless ineffective weekly processions.
Avez-vous été témoin de violences policières ? Si oui, pouvez-vous décrire ce que vous avez vu ?
Yes, I have seen police charges, tear gas launches, chases.
Et quel regard portez-vous sur la manière dont la police a répondu au niveau national au mouvement et à la direction politique de M Castaner en tant que ministre de l'intérieur?
The police have proven that their mission is not to regulate traffic or fight crime, but to defend the interests of the ruling class, to protect the bourgeoisie.
Quel est l'héritage du mouvement et comment les historiens le traiteront-ils dans les années à venir ?
The peculiarity of this movement, besides having been one of the first events of class struggle of this kind in the 21st century, lies in its self-organization and political empowerment.
Also, by its spontaneous nature, this movement was neither union-corporate nor politically captive. Despite state and media propaganda tending to discredit the movement, the yellow vests had taken to the streets and on the roads en masse. Historians and posterity will remember that at the height of the struggle, more than 300,000 demonstrators had occupied strategic places to express their anger, paralyze the economy, the production of surplus value, and profits. More than 2,000 gatherings and blockades of refineries and supermarkets were noted, stopping tolls at the entrance to highways.
Beyond denouncing the increase in fuel prices, these demonstrators expressed their anger against the increase in the CSG, the decline in deindexed pensions, and in general against all policies that attack living conditions, of work and retirement of workers carried out by the government of the rich since Macron's enthronement at the Élysée.
This, in our opinion, is the thread that links the spontaneous uprising of the yellow vests and the present spontaneous international movement against the state pandemic terror carried out under the guise of the fight against Covid-19. You will certainly have noticed that after eighteen months of sanitary conditioning, big business is once again threatening us, in France and around the world, with drastic increases in energy prices. Will these price increases for energy materials lead to the reiteration of the yellow vests movement, but on an international scale? We think so. All the objective conditions are in place to trigger a radical worldwide protest movement.
Another historical lesson: of course, the yellow vests movement was unorganized, but that is what made it strong, one might say. No union cacique, no stipendied NGO, nor any left or right political party could, therefore, recover and betray him for a few prebends or parliamentary sinecures. Contrary to media propaganda, the yellow vests movement was not apolitical, but bourgeois anti-capitalist and anti-capitalist. The difference is size. He was fundamentally opposed to all the traditional political parties of parliamentary alternation subservient to power, allies of capital.
As it was opposed to all the far left and far right political organizations, which did not fail to despise it for having excluded them from the struggle. In reality, the yellow vests movement challenged all political categories of the bourgeois way of thinking respectful of the established order. You will notice that so is the spontaneous uprising against the current pandemic covidal terror.
Enfin, pouvez-vous me parler brièvement de vous-même - votre travail, même vos origines, votre âge et situation familiale si vous êtes heureux de partager cela?
I was born in Paris. I am 58. I am Algerian. My father, established in Paris in 1947, was a member of the FLN from its foundation. He actively participated in the Algerian Revolution.
After independence, the day after my birth, out of nationalism, he made the choice to come back and settle in Algeria rather than stay in France. So I grew up until I was 18 in Algiers. Then, I returned to France. I am a specialized educator by training, a profession I worked for 17 years with adolescents. But for 10 years, I have been working as a pedagogical advisor in high schools. I am the author of 4 books. I have a 14 year old son.
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